Friday, February 28, 2014

Super Action Squad vs Shovel Knight

Image from: stock.xchng
 
So Jay Pavlina's game Super Action Squad and Yacht Club Games's Shovel Knight are both retro games that were funded on Kickstarter and are being produced by "indie" developers. I want to do a comparison of the two so people can see the clear difference between two indie games that were both funded on Kickstarter. Hopefully this will help backers in their decision of what games to back in the future.

Lets start out with Yacht Club Game's thoughts on the risks of developing an indie game;

"Making great video games is hard. Like, really hard! Art, design, and technology have to be blended seamlessly to create a cohesive experience. On top of that, it takes time to iterate and expand on ideas. There is a reason lots of awesome games take forever to come out!
The biggest risk is that Shovel Knight would take longer than anticipated. If production were to go late, cash would be the biggest problem. If catastrophe truly struck, our backup plan would be to pool our remaining funds and partner with venture capitalist or publisher to get the game done. This game is our livelihood, so we will do whatever it takes!
However, perish the thought of failure! Yacht Club Games has an experienced staff that has shipped more than 30 projects on more than 8 platforms. We work as a team, we have made games of this type before, and we know what we are doing!"

I at least think that this sums up the risks pretty nicely. Yacht Club adresses the risk and says what they will do in the case it happens. Jay Pavlina did not even acknowledge or discuss risks at all on the Kickstarter page for Super Retro Squad (now called Super Action Squad).

Missing the deadline is certainly one of the major risks in backing an indie game on Kickstarter. Both Shovel Knight and Super Action Squad missed their deadlines so let's take a good hard comparison of how both indie developers handled the situation.


It's pretty easy to see the situation and I'm actually not even going to say anything about the data, what do you guys think?


90 comments:

  1. well as a shovel knight backer I can tell you the alpha is AMAZING!!!

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  2. Wow yes this is exactly what I have been saying......

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  3. yup and that's why more people backed shovel knight because its actually to be finish and will be so fun. I think thi s is a pretty good compo

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  4. spot on mate spot on you can see theclear winner

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  5. Lol yeah Jay is not so good

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  6. shovel got way more $$$ because people new they would be really getting a game!!! people can see snake in the grass = jay so he got way less $$$ its simple really

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  7. Know what? I literally dare the fanboys to say something now! What could they possibly even say right now??

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    Replies
    1. right they can't say shit!

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    2. Well, I can say that they don't actually have a particular goal any more. They should probably update SMBC and take the 50k part out.
      Also how come SK got funded 75k and received 300k?
      BTW in the meantime Jay decided he'd have a shot at daily public updates. I personally doubt he'll have much to say in most videos (and I'd have gone for weekly rather than daily), but it's a start I guess.

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    3. Oh wait I misread, they wanted 75k and got 300k :P

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  8. lol could you picture Jay talking to a VC? That would prob be the most awkward thing ever!

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  9. Honestly anyon with 1/2 a brain would know that Shovel Knight would be the better game. Hell Super Retro Squad is probably never going to come out, Jay is just in way to deep and seems to be doing a bit of a disapeering act.

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  10. (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c('')('')

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  11. (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c('')('')

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  12. just deal, your never getting your presious little game

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  13. In the very quote you quoted, it says that the SK team has worked on more than 30 projects on more than 8 platforms.
    I think that kinda makes a difference when compared to a team that only ever made one game.

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  14. How do you figure shovel knights money went to charity?

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  15. You know what this shows you? Make sure the game you try to fund is going to be done. You can tell by how many games they made so far. Yeah so clearly shovel knight is going to come out and super retro squad may never even come out at all!

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  16. you NEED NEED NEED NEED to check out his newest update! Its been 2 years and he showed what the game is now and it looks like 2 weeks of work!!

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    1. Hey yes you should see that. What do you think? From what I saw its holy shit scam!

      Do an post for me? It would be a good one right? I don't want to bother you though.

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    2. I mean I know you read this so is my thoughts dumb??

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  17. Lol yes... 2whole years of work and all he's got is moving squares! What more do people need to know this scam? Hell give me 50k and ill make some squares move for ya ;)

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  18. he literally took that cash and did nothing with it the progress is non existent

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  19. I have a brainteaser for you guys. Two of them, in fact.
    I would like you guys to answer these two questions:
    1) Is this game cancelled?
    2) Do you want it to be cancelled, assuming it isn't?

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    1. No it shouldn't be cancelled what needs to happen is he must refund the money because it is clear that after 2 years he's just starting work. After he refunds the money he should work on Super RETRO Squad and then when its finished, sell it. That is the proper was to handle the major PR snaffoo.

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    2. I've thought about it, and there isn't actually very much that's changed significantly. The default skin has been shifted to 16-bit rather than 8-bit, sure, but both of them were always going to be there (and they didn't throw away the 8-bit, it'll still be there). And the name changes aren't exactly complete game changers either (I bet that within a week of the game's release, someone will make a hack that gets the original names back), although I can sorta see what the problem is with that. In fact, the splitting in multiple episodes was actually the way it was going to be in the first place. It was going to be a series of small games, then it became one big game, and now two episodes.
      So tell me, what else has changed to make "Super RETRO Squad" a different game entirely?
      By the way, when I release my first game, I don't intend to crowdfund, for the sole reason that time doesn't cost money yet due to me still being a teenager.

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    3. I'm sorry but I don't see anything about any of that on Kickstarter....

      Either way you didn't even say anything about how he just started work after 2 years. I mean this is the guy who says he looses track of time and what day it is. Hell maybe there are even mental issues, who knows.

      Good luck with your game though and your right time doesn't cost anything so I'll be looking out for your game when its done. You should try out GameMaker cause its so easy. Honestly with no game making experience you could probably make a retro platform game in about 2 weeks.

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    4. I'll probably use Pygame actually. And when I say time doesn't cost money yet, I mean I'm not currently the person supporting my life (i.e. buying the food, paying the bills, etc).

      Your first paragraph/sentence confused me though. They originally empathized the 8-bit graphics, now they're empathizing the 16-bit graphics. There was never going to be no 16-bit, and the 8-bit is still there. They originally wanted it a series, then they decided to make it one big game at one point, and then they split it into two in an attempt to get into a financially stable situation more quickly. At first, it looks like that's three different things, but they're actually going back to their roots.

      By the way, where did you hear about the time/day? During holidays, all days are the same, which means I'm far more likely to lose track of what day it is, so I wouldn't call it unusual. As for mental problems, I'm an aspie myself, and they're more common than one might think.
      Also have you ever tried coding collision detection on slopes? I've tried programming non-slope stuff, and it's ridiculously difficult (I'm attempting to make a simplified SMB W1-1 for my mentally impaired sister, and walls don't work despite me translating code from a Love2D platformer tutorial thing that *does* work properly), so I don't see why slopes should be any easier. Sure, SMBC had collision detection, but no slopes.

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    5. God why do my walls of text get so long?

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  20. Its not cancelled but pretty much no works been done. Have you seen the update? The is flat out no way it should take 2 years, 2 YEARS to gett just the basics like that.

    Oh and here is a brainteaser, WHY DOES THE VIDEO UPDATE HAVE ADS!!!! Gee its because he hasn't done shit and just wants more money from his suckers, oops I mean backers! So if you wanna be his unemployment check well then go for it! Not me though no way

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    1. Yup I saw the ads to and thought to myself this as an all new low. He really views his fans as ATMs

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    2. Not really, he is adding ads for get food, for get anything, and, if youre visiting the webpage, youre the atm, no?

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    3. lol ur moms the atm

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  21. Before people start thinking that he blamed everyone but himself, read more carefully and see how much he blamed himself.
    If you're confused by the lack of context, I'm sure the context will arrive here within a few hours of me posting this.

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  22. You were right all along... Jay has cancelled the game!! SCAM CONFIRMED!!!

    source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/explodingrabbit/super-retro-squad/posts/780315

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    Replies
    1. They intend to go back to it once they've made some smaller games, and they will do their best to refund backers. Ask first, get first.

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    2. @Mario-Fan - can you help? He isn't even replying to people. You seem helpful and responsive.

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    3. Help with what?
      Also that depends on your definition of "people". He replied to some, but not all, comments. As did Jessy.

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    4. Um ok, he needs to reply and refund everyone, what the hell!

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    5. They refunded to the ones that not hated it, the backers here that are hating and shit they will not have refund, i think jav is doing it for pissing hatters off

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  23. I am so glad the backers gave jay a house it gives me warm fuzzies ;)

    Ok next can yall give me 50k for ahouse? I'm good looking with charisma;)

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  24. He just a simple thief

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  25. What he says about the team is ridiculous and such bad leader like wow

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    Replies
    1. He dosent knowed how can the emplooyes work in the game

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  26. This makes me so fucking upset. I literally think Jay is just some spoiled rich kid that thinks everything belongs to him. I read his dumbass cancellation article and it seems like he treated his "employees" like slaves. He paid them nothing and then made them get jobs so he didn't have to work. That is a slave. If I was them I wouldn't done shit on the game either if your making me your bitch. It seems like the only 2 left on the team are there because they give him money, they paid for some of the house and work jobs.

    Jay is such a scumbag, he needs to apologize for using his employees and then refund backers and then fucking get a job like everyone else. I mean who the fuck just uses people like that, they are just toys to him. I don't want a response and don't give a shit about him or his stupid company, tell me when HE GETS A JOB!!! I hear walmats hiring

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    Replies
    1. "Welcome to Walmart"

      xD

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    2. Their employees make nothing in the actual game, thats why jav gave them 0 dollars

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  27. SO WTF HAPPENED TO THE MONEY WHAT WAS IT SPENT ON!!!!!!!!!

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    Replies
    1. on the game. if youre a backer, you payed for the game, dumbass

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  28. a sucker is born every day and that's just it then people like Jay come in and snatch up there money. I mean seriously he swindled 50k and more peole need to be asking for the refund

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    1. Wow, youre the one that is willing to pay the kickstarter, youre the dumbass

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  29. Hi. They did a live webcams Q&A thingy yesterday so how come you weren't on it? You could have asked him your stuff then.

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    1. agreed, if they do this again you def need to be on it

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  30. Hey, so obviously people are now asking for refunds but Jay hasn't been giving refund or replying to the comment even! Can you help us some how? How should this be handled? I guess we probably need lawyers right but how much is that cost? Thank you so much in advance for helping us please

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    1. He replied on youtube some shit about a policy. He has to be joking cause people will tear him a new one if he trys that bullshit.

      Oh and yes I to would like to know how to go about the lawyer stuff please

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    2. I would also like to know this

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    3. WHAT THE FUCK, I have asked this dude for a refund on like several places and NO RESPONSE! He doesn't even respond!! I am so pissed. Please tell us how to sue this piece of shit thief!!!

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    4. Ya this dbag needs to take a break from internet porn to refund his backers! They made an investment in him and then he just ends up stealing from them. Now I'm not a backer so no refund for me but I have been reading this blog and it makes me furious how he acts and yes it is much like a spoiled rich kid with no connection to this thing called the real world. You know that place where people can't get away with stealing and work jobs to pay the bills!

      Hopefully someone takes this asshole down and maybe he even be arrested!!

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    5. Dag Hardfeldt claims to have been refunded, and I believe some others have been refunded too.

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    6. How can it be arrested? in what way? hum? no response from you too?

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    7. Oh, and youre the one willing to pay the kickstarter dude, are you dumbass? dond reply me if youre gonna say me "yu re te dumbazz trolololo"

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  31. Replies
    1. Better be quick else lawsuit time baby!

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  32. lol hard at this!

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  33. Hey everyone so I just found out he actually makes a profit from people going to his site because of the ads.

    So... DO NOT GO TO HIS SITE! Help take away that illegal money so he homeless!

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    1. Check nitrome, makes money from ads and no one hates it

      If we helped it making more money he can really complete SAS

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  34. I truly don't understand how people put up with this I mean not only is he not sending out refunds to most people but has literally stopped responding to comments, I don't see a single reply to a kickstarter comment. I'm sorry but anyone who still supports this joker is strait retarded. No offense.

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    1. You know, the "retarded" people are making more money to jav, so he can work on SAS, for you and all the people that are hating it

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  35. this is hillarious

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    1. Erm maybe or ridiculus more so. Major pr hit

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  36. This webpage, forum, post, blog, whatever, its just hillarious, posting fake things, the admin should know more from the webpage from exploding rabbit itself, oh, and... Now the dude that its posting this is getting to new pages rather than exploding rabbit, now hes gonna hate all the retro game makers..

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  37. Do you guys think why shovel knight is there? because of out backers, ads, like in exploding rabbit, they come out because they were not shit hatters argumenting about how pissed they are

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  38. Usually, it's kind of obvious what side people are on here. If they're me, they mainly side with Jay. If they're literally anyone else, they don't. willingsas, however, baffles me.

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    Replies
    1. its just spam. it happens when a forum is not moderated unfortunately.

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  39. Some people aren't on a "side" they are just reacting to the situation

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  40. hey man thanks for not having to use the capta stuff it is so annoying!@

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  41. still not refunded.......!!!!!!

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  42. So yeah can you help us get a refund this fucking shit bag just stopped responding to people.....

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But who cares what we think, what do you think about the Exploding Rabbit scam? You can post anonymously if you want.